are people who often base themselves on the wrong-headed view of religion, extreme, narrow-minded and so on. and you see it play out in libya with the tragic death of your ambassador there, it play out in egypt, yemen, syria, iraq. afghanistan, pakistan. this is a battle going on in which i think what we have to do is be there on the side of the modern minded sensible people. it's going to be a very tough struggle in the meantime. >> how much about the way we look at these countries is colored by the last decade of experience in afghanistan and iraq. here in america and great britain, their civilians have been killed in these wars, we don't have the stomach to put our men and women in harm's way. do you think that colors the way president obama views these decisio decisions? >> well, it's always better to have a coalition together. but i think what's happening which is different now in the past couple of years from the previous ten is that we interveinte interve intervened, and so on. this time, it is -- these uprisings are coming from the street. these oppressive regimes are being cast off